Posted 22 May 2013 True, but I would be an easy hand-wave get out clause. A very, very bad one to use, but an easy one. All they need to do is accompany the return to normal continuity with some big explosions/energy pulses or have the genesis wave overload and malfunction. As I said, it would be a really bad idea, but... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 Endangered Species is my least favorite arc now when I thought it was going to be my top, all that story built up for nothing.. Same here if we don't get Julie-Su and the rest of his removed creations back...Reading reprints will be abit painful for me =(. What really worries me though is that these characters are erased when the cross-over ends. Yeah while I do love the Main continuity of the comics,I'm worried they might just do that once we go back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 Yeah no Lien-Da, or Sally's brother will really rain on my parade. Though I didn't know about court issue until recently but after finding out my heart sank to the floor realizing the set it up for easy perminent removal. Granted I wasn't to excited about the cross over arch because I was so wrapped up in the roboticized Sally story and was hoping that would get resolved or further developed. But if this is a reset to remove characters I think it would be such a drastic change that overall would hurt the fan base and possibly lose interest. The story would lose a sense of progression and perminence; no weight behind the actions when it can be changed at a drop of a hat. I can only imagine what kind of mess it would be if Penders had made Sally, Tails, or say the roboticizing concept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 Penders mainly created like literally everything for Knuckles' story, if they trash all his characters I don't see how Knuckles' stories will make sense anymore. When the crossover was announced last year I was eagerly looking forward to it but now I just can't enjoy it because I'm really worried if the characters will disappear forever. Sure the crossover is doing good but I'm more concern for the main storyline now with the recent previews for 252. The solicts sound so vague its just scares me. Hopefully they put the characters out for awhile until they can use them again and NOT kill them. I am in no way in support for a reboot. All those 20 years of storyplanning wasted, not to mention some 20th anniversary for the comics we are getting. :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 I came into this topic a bit late, but--Penders a nice guy? I have it on good authority that he's not that nice; among other things, he's said that fan artists somehow aren't "real artists" even though they produce artwork like any other artist (he has a similarly low opinion of fanfic writers), and that his fans don't know what they want (but he does). It also seems that he was rather uncooperative with fellow writers during his time at Archie (basically ignoring their plans, forcing them to write around his own, I think). The lawsuit itself has been dragging on forever and I hope it ends in a way that can benefit everyone, or at least allow off-limits characters to be used again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 If this turns out poorly I can only imagine things turning out like the old Sonic cartoon, no plot and loonytoonish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 Can we get a "Penders-created characters list", so we can figure out who to say goodbye to, please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 (edited) https://sites.google...ders-characters Though I'm dont think that he owns Uma. Also he might be resposible for few more parents thanks to "stories from great war" (also liblarian from that story). He did created Bear Pack, so its possible Flynn want be able to use Desiel, similary he owns future Miobius, so no Skye or Melody for us. He did created Priar Buck, but he apparently doesnt care since he appeared. Flynn's "Neo Walkers" will propably never show up since all walkers belong to Penders. (Now Flynn propably feels stupid for killig previous Walkers, assuming they werent his idea too) He also introduced real Fiona but propably owns her as much as Anti Knuckles which means not at all. Also: Sleuth "Doggy" Dawg, Renfield T Rodent, Cyril Eagle, Julaya, Nic the Weasel, The Hunter, Isaac, Quack's family, E.V.E., Sir Connery and some really useless background characters like evil wizards from "Knuckles searches Sword of Acorns Saga", Ripper T Rodent, Smiley and Fleming or Eric the Horse (StH nr 59 ) Edited 26 Sep 2013 by MetalSkulkBane_PL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 Jerk = Ken Penders + Archie Comics (I carried the two.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 23 May 2013 If this turns out poorly I can only imagine things turning out like the old Sonic cartoon, no plot and loonytoonish. I don't think Archie will go that far if they lose all Penders creations. I'm really worried if the characters will disappear forever. Sure the crossover is doing good but I'm more concern for the main storyline now with the recent previews for 252. The solicts sound so vague its just scares me. Hopefully they put the characters out for awhile until they can use them again and NOT kill them. I know how you feel on that...but I doubt they're gonna cut all ties to his work in one issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 24 May 2013 https://sites.google...ders-characters Though I'm not sure if he owns Uma or Kodos (Kodos was only mentioned in his stories). Also he might be resposible for few more parents thanks to "stories from great war" (also liblarian from that story). He did created Bear Pack, so its possible Flynn want be able to use Desiel, similary he owns future Miobius, so no Skye or Melody for us. He did created Priar Buck, but he apparently doesnt care since he appeared. Flynn's "Neo Walkers" will propably never show up since all walkers belong Penders except Merlin Prower. (Now Flynn propably feels stupid for killig previous Walkers, assuming they werent his idea too) Also: Renfield T Rodent, Cyril Eagle, Julaya, Nic the Weasel, The Hunter, Isaac, E.V.E., Sir Connery and some really useless background characters like evil wizards from "Knuckles searches Sword of Acorns Saga", Ripper T Rodent, Smiley and Fleming or Eric the Horse (StH nr 59 ) Thanks for showing me this. I see not all characters were created by Penders. Before I saw that list, I thought almost all of the comic only characters were of his design, but I see other writers had their own fair share of creations as well ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 26 May 2013 I Hate Penders. His complaints boil down to "WAA THEY CONTINUED THE STORY HOW I WANTED AND IN THE DIRECTION IT WAS GOING IN STOP STEALING." That and his writing is dreadful. The comics only got good after he left and if anybody wants object all I have to say is. Issue 155, page 3, panel 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 Glad HE didn't write Enerjak: Reborn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 “I should point out the decision to use or not use a character lies strictly with Archie Comics,” BobR said. “For all those out there blaming Ken over the disappearance of your favorite character, you’re blaming the wrong party.” If they didn't remove all Penders' characters, he would probably sue them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 All's I'll say (sorry, havent been on here to reply ;^^) is that it's foolish to believe everything you read on the internet. So in that regard, I'm glad people are still skeptical of what I'm saying of the thought of him being a decent person. He's not my favorite writer, as I said, and he's made plenty of mistakes (I wouldnt be one to buy his Lara-Su Chronicles). However, I think we can all at least agree that there was more going on, and it wasn't ALL him, he's not the sole person to blame. And trust me, I don't exactly want him winning the suit, as there are several other writers/artists waiting to file a law suit with Archie (including Scott Shaw) if Penders wins; all of them are saying they experienced the same problem with Archie using their work without their permission, and claiming that Archie let them legally own the work that they supplied to the book. It was either the Sonic Stadium or the Sonic Scene site(s) who had an article on that a while back. BTW, what about Dimitri? He wasn't one of the Echidnas put in the Twilight Cage like the others (Thrash didnt even know about him in New Mobotropolis), but he's definetely a Penders character. I'm assuming they just won't use him until the legal battle is over; and if they cant use him anymore,he's an easy one to just kill off unfortunately (he's one of my favorites). Anyway, i would hate it if they rebooted the book. My only hope is that the Mega Man cross-over gives them enough time to settle some things with Penders. I thought Genesis was a reboot, and didn't enjoy it that much because I was so worried all of the continuity would be completely wiped away! Plus, the solicits for the first post-Mega Man Sonic comic came out, and while it sounds like there will be some characters affected (Ixis Naugus specifically), it sounds like it's definitely not a reboot (I mean, if they were going to reboot, I think they would have done it during Genesis anyway. The legal battle was going on back then, so not much has changed now to warrant a reboot, as far as we know) I'll admit, I'm not interested in Mega Man in the slightest, but I have kind of enjoyed World's Collide; Ian's dialogue for Eggman and Wily are by far the highlight of the arc for me :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 BTW, what about Dimitri? He wasn't one of the Echidnas put in the Twilight Cage like the others (Thrash didnt even know about him in New Mobotropolis), but he's definetely a Penders character. I'm assuming they just won't use him until the legal battle is over; and if they cant use him anymore,he's an easy one to just kill off unfortunately (he's one of my favorites). Did you read issue 232? Dimitri has been relocated back to Angel Island and is now at Haven. Apparently there's no evidence to suggest that he had been banished with the other echidnas by thrash through his warp ring. As Thrash himself only mentioned he took care of "those girls at the master emerald." Whatever his fate, he definitely cannot be used now as Penders has claimed him as his own and has plans for him for the Lara-Su Chronicles. Yeah, one of my favorites too actually. I know how you feel on that...but I doubt they're gonna cut all ties to his work in one issue. No I'm not suggesting that, but looking at those solicits makes me think they are either going to drop penders' work issue by issue or just leave them out until the case is settled. The former is unless Archie is no longer allowed to use his work. Hopefully the latter is true, possibly and should be. Thanks for feeling me. Anyways, I've been honestly wanting to ask everyone. Do you feel that Shade and the Marauders from Sonic Chronicles were ripped off of the the Dark Legion? Since this is the reason this whole case started. Personally, I don't see how Julie-Su and Shade are even alike. I hadn't the slightest idea about any similarity until I found out about the lawsuit. But I still don't really see how, only thing in common is that their from an evil group, but their stories are so different not to mention design. What's everyone's say on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 I'm pretty sure that the story designers at BioWare said they based Chronicles off the Comics. Even if the visual design is different, the overall background between the Nocturnus (Marauders) and the Dark Legion is very, very similar. Both groups of technologically advanced Echidnas banished to a pocket dimension, and rather P*ssed off about it. Heck, the game is even subtitled 'The Dark Brotherhood', just a slight difference away from Legion. Overall though, I'd say it was more a 'homage' than a 'rip-off'. What make it amusing though, is the fact that several elements from Chronicles have started appearing in the background of the comics. So, the comics are basing ideas from a game based on them! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 Well, I can see the comic characters were the inspiration, but that's as far as it goes, in terms of how identical they are. And on the subject of what happens after Worlds Collide, I don't think they'll reset everything and wipe out all these characters. They'll probably just use the effects of the Genesis wave to their advantage and create a reason why so many people are gone. That is, if the lawsuit isn't finished at that point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 Yeah I wouldn't call the story a rip off either I mean yeah both The Dark Legion and the Marauders are an evil Echidna organization and one of them Switches sides thats about it when it comes to comparing Chronicles to the Dark Legion I also would like to point out that Penders was told about the similarites by Sonic fas thinking he worked on the game by checking on his forum where he claimed copyright. I also noticed that he didn't say anything about playing through Chronicles or watching/reading more about it online Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 Honestly Shade to Julie-Su is as different as possible while being homage. Female Echidna leaves evil technological team for good guys? True. BUT hot pink - soft orange cyborg - techno suit gun - blades related to bad guy, but low level minion - right hand of not related to her bad guy no pants - full bodysuit messy hair - headband hot headed and brash - disciplined and noble And remember both characters should belong to Sega. Marvel and DC are rivals and yet nothing like that ever happen. On related subject: I edited my post that lists Penders characters about 5 times by now and with Sleuth Dawg I'm pretty sure I've covered every character that anybody could care about. With that to guide you I present you a simple qestion: wchich characters you will be miss and which not? It seems like obvious question, but my time on internet taught that some people can get insanely attached to backgroung characters like Drago, Barby, Hershey, or Sojourner to the point to calling them their favourite characters. One guy even said that he stopped reading Archie comics beause of death of Ancient Walkers! So I'm curious about your thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 May 2013 wchich characters you will be miss and which not? I'd miss all of em but thats not a good answer so out of all of them I'd truely miss Julie-Su,Saffron, Lien-Da,Rob,Enerjak,Kneecaps and Elias Even if they are gone for good I'd still read the main Sonic comic and Sonic Universe 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 29 May 2013 Did you read issue 232? Dimitri has been relocated back to Angel Island and is now at Haven. Apparently there's no evidence to suggest that he had been banished with the other echidnas by thrash through his warp ring. As Thrash himself only mentioned he took care of "those girls at the master emerald." Whatever his fate, he definitely cannot be used now as Penders has claimed him as his own and has plans for him for the Lara-Su Chronicles. Yeah, one of my favorites too actually. No I'm not suggesting that, but looking at those solicits makes me think they are either going to drop penders' work issue by issue or just leave them out until the case is settled. The former is unless Archie is no longer allowed to use his work. Hopefully the latter is true, possibly and should be. Thanks for feeling me. Anyways, I've been honestly wanting to ask everyone. Do you feel that Shade and the Marauders from Sonic Chronicles were ripped off of the the Dark Legion? Since this is the reason this whole case started. Personally, I don't see how Julie-Su and Shade are even alike. I hadn't the slightest idea about any similarity until I found out about the lawsuit. But I still don't really see how, only thing in common is that their from an evil group, but their stories are so different not to mention design. What's everyone's say on this? Wow, my memory must be going lol. Once again forgot that; now I remember how he was relocated (face-palm) And really, Chronicles takes INSPIRATION from the comics, and it just so happend Penders was the writer on Knuckles (and the Chronicles story revolves around Knuckles). Just because they took inspiration from the comic does not really mean that they ripped-off of Ken Penders work specifically. Plus, they really took inspiration from various things, such as the cartoon show and old and obscure Sonic video games. Personally, there's not many similarities to me. I mean, just because Ix is a mad albino echidna doesn't mean that he's a rip-off of Finitevus; many of the Chronicles characters have more differences than similarities to Penders characters. I've defended him somewhat, but this seems a bit of a stretch. Now, I did read somewhere (forget where, somewhere like Sonic Retro or TSSZ) that Penders stated that the writers of Chronicles' story came to him for ideas, and then used his ideas without giving him credit. However, that contradicts Penders story about how a fan made him aware that Bioware "ripped-off" his work on the comics. While I somewhat do like him (again, this doesn't mean I agree with everything he wrote/did; he definitely did have trouble organizing his thoughts and him speaking out against Ian Flynn was wrong), I highly doubt writers from a company like Bioware would go to someone like Penders, who wrote the back-up stories. At the time of developement, Flynn was the head-writer, so you would think if they went to anyone, they would go to him. Plus, why wouldn't they go to Sega??? The whole claim doesn't make sense... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 29 May 2013 wchich characters you will be miss and which not? Well, no points for guessing one of the characters I'll miss due to Pender's having control of X Years Later. :P Though that alone would hardly make me stop reading the comics. It depends on how they'd handle a mass-exodus of characters if it came to that. Do it very well and they may salvage something, but I don't envy them that task. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 1 Jun 2013 The problem is the entire comic has been crippled by Ken and his little tantrums. Chracters that were ESSENTIAL to the plot are now being killed off. If archie doesnt return these then this comic is screwed at least for a while Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 10 Jun 2013 I am 85% confident that Archie will win. Strength in numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
English