Posted 16 May 2013 You've all heard of the ISSUE of Ken Penders, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 How could I not? As the judge said "This looks like a fine mess." He summed it up pretty well. I can only hope that this whole issue can be settled and the comic can return to normality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 I was never aware of this suit going on and this all makes me sad; art is just a tool for people to make money off it seems. I wonder what will have to the characters that are all the plot points that are going on. If Archie doesn't get to use them I almost feel like a series reboot would be the only thing to make it not sound stupid; and even then it would ruin years of work and story built up to what Sonic is today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 I was never aware of this suit going on and this all makes me sad; art is just a tool for people to make money off it seems. I wonder what will have to the characters that are all the plot points that are going on. If Archie doesn't get to use them I almost feel like a series reboot would be the only thing to make it not sound stupid; and even then it would ruin years of work and story built up to what Sonic is today. Yep, sad. This entire problem could be solved if they rehire Ken. Maybe the're worried that, as a writer, he'll REALLY give Sonic the real first name "Ogilvie". Speaking of, remember this from StH #53? (The post below this one) \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 Yeah it's pretty sad to hear what happened between Sega and Ken Penders. Hopefully the issue will be solved without too much consequenses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 Yep, sad. This entire problem could be solved if they rehire Ken. Maybe the're worried that, as a writer, he'll REALLY give Sonic the real first name "Ogilvie". Speaking of, remember this from StH #53? (The post below this one) \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ Sonic: (meeting Knuckles) Rad Red! I was hoping we'd cross paths again! (about to thank Knuckles for his assistance in StH #50) I never had the chance to thank y- Knuckles: Skip it, dude! Everything's cool! Sonic: Seal the deal, compadre! Knuckles: Just don't get "wet works" on me! Sonic: The hedgehog is never uncool, man! Jules: (off screen) MAURICE! Sonic: Oh, no... Knuckles: Who's that screaming? Sounds like a strangled turkey! Jules: Oh, there you are, Maurice! Sonic: (embarrassed laugh) Knuckles: Maurice!? Who? Is he talking to you? (pointing to Sonic) Antoine: [Yes]! Ha ha ha! [so]! Sonic's great secret [is] out! (talking to Sonic) I suppose your middle name is Wentworth or [something] ridiculous like [that]! Jules: Actually, that is his middle name! His first name is- Sonic: DAD! THE NAME IS SONIC-PERIOD!!!!!! Antoine: [This is] too much! Ha ha! I can't stand it! I have to go share [this] with everyone! Sonic: Oh, no you don't, 'Twan! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 Yeah... Can't say re-hiring Penders would be a good idea. Sorry, but he just reeks of an immature brat who wants to make money off his original characters (Do no steal.) He almost makes me think of Sonichu in that regard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 I really think these petty copyright complaints are from soulless jerks or just people who had a streak of great imagery or inspiration but afterwords their talent is shown lacking over all so they grasp at what few successes they had and milk it until the cow falls over dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 I have list of reasons why I dont like him and proudly present them here: 1 all that suing archie of course. 2He clearly cares only about his small universe rather that sonic. he admitted never playing any games 3Terrible anti-climaxes (159 for example) 4He thought that killing Sally in endgame would be a good idea. 5He never read Flynn comic, and he wants to make them irevelant if he comes back. 6He claims he doesnt have to read them to know they suck cause "Dark Egg Legion" and "The Dark Legion I know, especially Lien-Da, would've had Eggman in any incarnation for breakfast." 7 Didnt read Bollest stories, wchich explain why Mina randomly became a freedom fighter in 152. Seems to be proud about not relying on others work. 8In MXYL Sonic and Tails dont like each other. Nothing to do with story, but what the hell he does what he wants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 May 2013 I've looked at a fair few Sonic sites and I can definitely say that they're on Archie's side in this suit. And I have to say I'm Archie's side as well. I never found Penders stories or charactisations as well done, compared to Bollers, Gallegher and Flynn. Besides, it seems to me he only cares about what his work says and no one else's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 17 May 2013 I've looked at a fair few Sonic sites and I can definitely say that they're on Archie's side in this suit. And I have to say I'm Archie's side as well. I never found Penders stories or charactisations as well done, compared to Bollers, Gallegher and Flynn. Besides, it seems to me he only cares about what his work says and no one else's. Yep, I hope Archie wins. It would be better if they had Sega on their side, too. Could someone make a poll based on this topic, please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 17 May 2013 From what I've heard, Sega is now involved with the case and I highly doubt they're on Penders side. He's become a thorn in their side, and is really bumming out fans. The comics is a great way to keep Sonic popular, which Sega obviously wants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 18 May 2013 Oh don't get me started about this man whom I foolishly respected and thought was a good writer. I knew about the lawsuit going on for awhile but I really hadn't the slightest idea it was going to effect the comic since I heard Ian Flynn said it wouldn't some time back. When previews for the Endangered Species and Chaotix Quest came out I was really excited upon seeing that Rob and all my favorite Echidnas would be appearing again. And then, BAM, they all disappeared and couldn't even be named dropped, not even concepts could be mentioned. Believe me, I'm struck as hard as any fan would be knowing some of my favorite characters may be gone forever, and the whole book wouldn't make sense anymore knowing most of these were like the ground work for the series. Honestly speaking, Ken is my least favorite writer of the book. My only good point I can make of him is that he came up with good plots but was terrible with the dialogue, super boring. MetalSkulkBane_PL had pretty much listed my other dislikes for him already. Seeing all of Penders' comments on his forum about the current comic made me lose all my respect for the guy. I really don't see who would be interested in buying his "Lara-Su Chronicles" that nobody gives a hoot about. Not to be harsh, but the designs are ugly and unappealing. Pretty much a rant of mine, but really, the guy should be happy that Ian is still using his concepts and characters for the fans to enjoy knowing his work for the book goes on, and yet got into this whole mess of a lawsuit on claiming his stuff back. If Penders' characters are permanently gone I cannot look at the book the same way again knowing Julie Su, Elias, Geoffrey and etc have all gone bye bye. That is why now I'm hoping Archie will win the case. Ken seriously has gained more hate than support because of this mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 18 May 2013 I got one more reason to dislike Ken: Any body remembers mess that was know as Sonic Super Special Sonic Image Crossover? It starred Particle as hero and dr Droid as villain, characters neither from Sonic nor Image. Turns out Penders wanted to write his own comic called Lost Ones http://www.comicvine...ns/4000-172087/ The whole thing was one giant terrible advertisment for hiw own work that lasted an issue. How classy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 May 2013 Yep. And Sonic Live was terrrrrrrrrrrible! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 20 May 2013 Yeah...I really have strong dislike for the guy after all the damage he's done Endangered Species was a trainwreck that Poor Ian had to do his best to clean up. . I do have to say though I find it amazing how he gave some of his characters massive roles and just assumed that characters like Julie-Su being the girlfriend of Knuckles and Both Jules and Bernie being Sonic's parents would just disappear once he left. I honestly hope Archie can use the characters again and we all forget about the horrible nightmare that lasted so far four years Yep. And Sonic Live was terrrrrrrrrrrible! Oh how my younger self wanted to read that comic unaware of how bad it was. 1 person likes this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 21 May 2013 I've had personal contact with the guy (actually didn't mean to; didn't realize I was having a conversation directly with him through e-mail until half-way into the conversation), and yeah, I'll probably get a ton of hate for saying this, but he's actually a very nice guy. There's a LOT that we don't know; it's a mess for both Archie and Ken. The fact that the suite has went this far means that Ken's allegations is not without merit. SO many people left Archie around the same time (Karl Bollers, Ron Lim, Dawn Best, J. Axer, etc.), there was a lot more internally going on then we're aware of as fans. I felt the same way you all did, and I still hate what's happening with the characters due to the suite. Once I e-mailed back and forth with him, i realised everything I read was very one-sided against the man and not all the way true. He obviously couldn't even mention anything relating to it (didn't even mention anything about his experience at Archie at all), but he did something very nice and personal for me, and was one of the nicest people I've met. I'm not a huge fan of his writting in the comics, however, he's one of the reasons the comics have been going on for so long. Sales were dropping with Karl Bollers, and once he was fired, Ken took the helm and actually improved the sales of the book until Ian Flynn was hired. Everyone's definitely allowed to be upset, it really sucks for fans of the book. But the fact people are actually getting upset that the characters he created are being removed goes to show he had more of an impact than anyone realizes. I mean, Scourge started as one of his characters, Anti-Sonic; Finitevus was introduced as a back-ground character (unnamed) in one of Penders' stories; and obviously Julie-Su, Jani-Ca/Lara-Su, Remington, Lien-Da, Dimitri, any Echidna and Dark Legionairre, Rob, Geoffrey, Elias, Jules, Bernadette, The Destructix (they aren't technically his, but he introduced them. I used to hate them until the Scourge: Lockdown; now they're awesome!) and many more were all his creation. All of his ideas weren't great, but what Ian did with all of these characters are amazing, and I'd hate to see them all gone. The comic could go on,Ian Flynn is amazing, but it would be a shame for a long-time fan like myself. BTW does anyone know how the lawsuit ended???? i was shocked to see that they released several graphic novels that included his work, especially Knuckles Archives 4. Plus, Geoffrey is on the cover of sonic Legacy Vol. 3, drawn by Ben Bates. If they're not allowed to use his characters, than why would Ben Bates be allowed to draw one of Ken's more prominent characters? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 21 May 2013 I'll probably get a ton of hate for saying this, but he's actually a very nice guy. You traitor, I'm reporting you for this! Kidding, kidding, I've actually heard people saying stuff like that. And did anyone visited his forums? People keep making fun of him and his his work, preety much insult him and he never looses his cool. And he never reported or anything like that. example: Penders:Also, your "facts" about my "employment" are incorrect, but I can't go into details now. Greenman: Those details better be "I got paid in peanuts with little dollars signs on them while Archie suits dug through my desk and stole my stories." Because I'm having a really hard time believing that your employment didn't consist of getting paid actual money to make things. Sure, he argued that he owns Evil Sonic cause "while he may appear and be named Evil Sonic, that wasn't the basis for the character. I'll go into the genesis later when I can" wchich is very stupid but its quite amazing that he allows people to say things like this: Greenman:Well you see, originally he had a mustache and was called Bad Sonic. Penders wisely made a few alterations in order to amp the quality of his work, opting for a leather jacket and a much more exciting name.And then he sat back and shoved a few money-peanuts in his mouth, and said "I've done some fine work here today." Nerves of steel, Penders. Nerves of steel. But I'm afraid lawsuit is still on, quick google search told me that Penders demanded to ban Knuckles Archive vol 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 21 May 2013 BTW does anyone know how the lawsuit ended???? i was shocked to see that they released several graphic novels that included his work, especially Knuckles Archives 4. Plus, Geoffrey is on the cover of sonic Legacy Vol. 3, drawn by Ben Bates. If they're not allowed to use his characters, than why would Ben Bates be allowed to draw one of Ken's more prominent characters? Hmm.. interesting post you had there but still he did say some things which I found a little offensive towards the current comic staff and his claim on the characters. But I don't wish to discuss that. I guess we don't know much but I have seen his words. I'm trying not to be too upset about it. Anyway, referring to your quote, the Archives don't appear to be affected for some reason but the magazines are. Knuckles Archives 4 had a boring cover because apparently his characters are no longer allowed to appear on covers because of the lawsuit. Which I am honestly upset that we can't see any penders characters in Japanese art style anymore. Didn't you know that Geoffrey was removed from the final cover of Sonic Legacy? It was drawn before it was obviously ordered that his characters (that he had claimed) were to be removed from the covers to avoid more losses of the lawsuit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 Hmm.. interesting post you had there but still he did say some things which I found a little offensive towards the current comic staff and his claim on the characters. But I don't wish to discuss that. I guess we don't know much but I have seen his words. I'm trying not to be too upset about it. Anyway, referring to your quote, the Archives don't appear to be affected for some reason but the magazines are. Knuckles Archives 4 had a boring cover because apparently his characters are no longer allowed to appear on covers because of the lawsuit. Which I am honestly upset that we can't see any penders characters in Japanese art style anymore. Didn't you know that Geoffrey was removed from the final cover of Sonic Legacy? It was drawn before it was obviously ordered that his characters (that he had claimed) were to be removed from the covers to avoid more losses of the lawsuit. No, I read that, too. He definitely made some mistakes, and some of the things he said was offensive and wrong (plus, I would not support Lara-Su Chronicles). But from my personal interaction, and from what Dawn Best mentioned to me (I only brought him up to her to tell her that I had e-mailed with him), he just doesn't seem like the same guy I read about on the internet. Anyway, I feel stupid now lol. I knew that Geoffrey was removed from Sonic Legacy Vol. 3, but about a week ago Ben Bates posted the cover on his DeviantArt. That version had Geoffrey on it, but I forgot the same image was a poster in Sonic Super Special 5 without him. I thought when he posted it, something had changed; then I remembered that even with the lawsuit, Tracy Yardley posted the original covers for STH 243 and SU 48 that included Lien-Da and Rob O'. I'm assuming they can really post anything on DeviantArt then, since it's not published? Gotta say, though, the original covers for STH 243 and SU 48 were pretty sweet; especially with mechanical tentacles coming out of Lien-Da's arms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 No, I read that, too. He definitely made some mistakes, and some of the things he said was offensive and wrong (plus, I would not support Lara-Su Chronicles). But from my personal interaction, and from what Dawn Best mentioned to me (I only brought him up to her to tell her that I had e-mailed with him), he just doesn't seem like the same guy I read about on the internet. Anyway, I feel stupid now lol. I knew that Geoffrey was removed from Sonic Legacy Vol. 3, but about a week ago Ben Bates posted the cover on his DeviantArt. That version had Geoffrey on it, but I forgot the same image was a poster in Sonic Super Special 5 without him. I thought when he posted it, something had changed; then I remembered that even with the lawsuit, Tracy Yardley posted the original covers for STH 243 and SU 48 that included Lien-Da and Rob O'. I'm assuming they can really post anything on DeviantArt then, since it's not published? Gotta say, though, the original covers for STH 243 and SU 48 were pretty sweet; especially with mechanical tentacles coming out of Lien-Da's arms. Oh! We really don't know much about what is going on. But yes he made his mistakes and can be a nice guy. Maybe the internet has become too bias to Archie and against him, but its hard for me as I respected the guy and he posted alot of wrong stuff which made me dislike him. If he was, he shouldn't have posted such things knowing he has an image to maintain. Urgh, I really want to know what excatly is going on! But I'm doubtful a full report on this whole case of four years would be shared with the fans. I just wann it tooo enddddd...! Ah no worries its okay. I hate how the covers had to be bombarded with such edits, we had alot of annoying cover changes lately. Yeah its surprising they could post up the original covers and heck yeah about Lien Da, love what Ian has done to her, sadly, we only got one issue with her new abillties. I can imagine the Krudzu in her place as his attacks look very simliar to Lien Da's tentacle whips. Endangered Species is my least favorite arc now when I thought it was going to be my top, all that story built up for nothing.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 @Th3AntiGuardian I see your points. Looks like the internet and reports on this matter are not on Penders side. Although he wasn't the best of dialouge writers, he definitely knew how to make some really good characters. It seems not everything's as black and white as it looks to be. All I want really, is that Archie and Penders finally shake hands on all this and the characters can return to this comic. By the way, was Mina and Mammoth Mogul creations of his? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 I agree with you man, just end the court case peacefully that will hopefully be fair to both sides. No, Mina was created by Karl Bollers while Mogul was by Kent Taylor. Yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 Well that's good to hear. They're some of my favourite comic only Sonic characters. What really worries me though is that these characters are erased when the cross-over ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 22 May 2013 What makesyou suspect that Sonic will reboot continuity? I think Eggman said that Genesis Wave cant kill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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