Ken Penders Topic...

[Delicious echidna 53]

I prefer "Lien-da Penders day", for the sole reason of the play of words, I know it's not funny, but well.....

AS long as it doesn't end up as "sonic fanart" ugly level, we'll be fine.

[ZonicTH 6]

Ah okay =0

Also a thought just crossed my mind, with all the legal trouble he went through to steal claim back most of our favorite characters, Supposedly if his Lara-Su Comic/TV show/Movie ends up a no go or does poorly, Hopefully the idea of giving back all the characters he had claimed will cross his mind.

To be honest It's not likely but its also not unlikely =/

[Delicious echidna 53]

everything is possible with an human being. Also, his last comic ended up a no-go. Nobody brought "the lost one". Hopefuly, Lara-su might hang on for a while.

[ZonicTH 6]

Yeah =/ it would be incredibly upsetting for them to be ripped away from the comic for nothing

I'm gonna do my best to avoid the Lara-Su Chronicles but I do hope the characters are atleast kept alive somewhere

[BlueBlur 0]

I actually found a "save Juile-su" petition online urging Archie to keep using the characters. Here it is:

https://www.change.org/petitions/archie-comics-publications-inc-sega-save-julie-su-demand-archie-comics-stop-removing-sonic-characters

[Shadow 43]

I actually found a "save Juile-su" petition online urging Archie to keep using the characters. Here it is:

https://www.change.o...onic-characters

Archie doesn't have the rights. The characters were made by Ken Penders and thus belong to him. We, the fans, and anyone else have nothing to say about it except for the creator himself.

As much as I love Julie-Su, we can't help it. The decission is up to Ken, not to us.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Well, it was you who put that everywhere in DA ? anyway.....Have no fear :) the worst juli-su will suffer from, is finally having pants.

[BlueBlur 0]

Yeah =/ it would be incredibly upsetting for them to be ripped away from the comic for nothing

I'm gonna do my best to avoid the Lara-Su Chronicles but I do hope the characters are atleast kept alive somewhere

Archie could do the right thing and pay Penders for using his work. Archie seems to ave a dismal record when it ones to doing right by the people who work on their comics. They tried to steal Archie himself from his creator, Bob Montana, and the way they treated Dan DeCarlo was pathetic. Penders asked Archies for royalties for reprints of his early work. They said no, and rather than oy, they chose to remove the characters from the book, leaving him no choice but to copyright the characters. The way I see it, thank goodness someone is trying to preserve them.

[BlueBlur 0]

Archie doesn't have the rights. The characters were made by Ken Penders and thus belong to him. We, the fans, and anyone else have nothing to say about it except for the creator himself.

As much as I love Julie-Su, we can't help it. The decission is up to Ken, not to us.

Sure they do. Penders stated as much on his forum and that's what was posted on Tssznews.

[BlurryDawgo 26]

Well, it was you who put that everywhere in DA ? anyway.....Have no fear :) the worst juli-su will suffer from, is finally having pants.

Well, she'd hate a skirt, right?

[BlurryDawgo 26]

Well, there is no news from Archie or SEGA directly saying "Ken Penders won the copyright trial and his characters", so we'll have to wait and see.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Well, she'd hate a skirt, right?

Or worse. A Leotard of Power.

[BlueBlur 0]

Well, there is no news from Archie or SEGA directly saying "Ken Penders won the copyright trial and his characters", so we'll have to wait and see.

Penders was already granted a copyright through the U.S. Copyright Office. Archie sued Penders over this, but the judge dismissed the case after Archie and Penders reached a settlement. I'm pretty sure that Penders had no choice but to copyright the characters to have any legal standing for royalties in a court of law.

Penders posted this about Archie still being able to use the characters on Twitter. It looks like Archie would rather kill off the characters than pay royalties.

http://www.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/359367593167032321

[Delicious echidna 53]

Oh boy.... that's scary.... I forgot about that part of Archie..... anyone for lara-su Chronicle? At least, we'll get Remington.

[BlueBlur 0]

Firstly, welcome to the forums! Hope you'll enjoy being here. Secondly, I wanna say that, yes, Archie did sue him first but it was because Penders was trying to get copyright of his characters to use it against Sega and EA for apparently ripping off his characters which are the Marauders of Sonic Chronicles. Archie stated Ken had signed a contract before he left the company that his ideas were Archie's, and more importantly, Sega's. But the document has been lost and it was one of the big problems why this lawsuit endured so long.

Personally for me he doesn't deserve to be paid loyalties because of the trouble and comments he made against the comic and the current staff, saying Ian and the rest are making money out of something they didn't create among other things, what hypocrisy. After all these years he suddenly steps in demanding royalties, him being credited is enough already, its not like Archie removed his name from the reprints.

Thanks for welcoming me. I'm excited to be here.

From what I read, Penders says he never signed a contract with Archie. His editors and several other writers from the time period confirmed that and stated they didn't have contacts either.

Your question about why Penders waited years to demand royalties doesn't make sense go me. He didn't have reason to until recently, when Archie started releasing Sonic Archives featuring his work. From what I understand, the reason Penders filed for copyright protection was because Archie ignored his request for royalties, and when his characters were also used in the video game, again without royalties, it must have been the last straw.

I think your argument about Penders is roughly the same one DC Comics first made about Jerry Seigel: "He signed a contract giving us the rights, so Superman is ours." But in this case, there was no contract. The fact there either was no contract, or it was "lost" gives this an entirely different dimension than the battle over Superman. What is similar is the fact DC didn't want to share the profits with Siegel, same as Archie is now fighting against Penders.

Why shouldn't Archie fairly compensate its writers and illustrators for reprints of their original work? Why shouldn't they also be fairly compensated if those characters are later used in film or some other media? If Archie and Sega can gain financially from releasing the original comic, and also profit from their use in other venues, why shouldn't the writers and illustrators be fairly compensated too?

Penders was responsible for the bulk of content that made the Knuckles series viable. The characters he made didn't exist in the video games. At the very least he should be recognized for fighting to sustain the comic series and by that same token, supporting the fans who love it, when no one else was paying attention. How many years was Penders out pushing the comic at the Comic Con, when Archie was no where to be found?

You say Penders has spoken poorly of the comic and current staff. If true, that's regrettable. But I'd imagine this is all pretty frustrating so regrettable things have been spoken by all. I did read somewhere that at the San Diego Comic Con, Penders actually went up to Archie's current Sonic writer, Ian, to shake his hand in a friendly gesture.

I just find it hard to believe that Penders is really the ogre some are making him out to be. What I am sure of is that there is more to this than meets the eye. I'm sure there are things happening behind the scenes we aren't aware of.

The only thing I know for sure is that Archie has a history, going all the way back to Bob Montana and DeCarlo, of not playing fair with its creative staff. Judging from the mud-slinging that recently went on between its co-CEOs Archie isn't above that either.

The "Ken Penders = all bad," "Archie = can do no wrong" scenario just doesn't add up to me.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Nice to see that I'm not the only one seeing things in differents shades of grey. I mean, he is just a creator, trying to make something out of his past works. Could we really blame him for that? But he is not so good either.

[Simon Arty 14]

Your question about why Penders waited years to demand royalties doesn't make sense go me. He didn't have reason to until recently, when Archie started releasing Sonic Archives featuring his work. From what I understand, the reason Penders filed for copyright protection was because Archie ignored his request for royalties, and when his characters were also used in the video game, again without royalties, it must have been the last straw.

I don't remember hearing that but what I read, he filed copyright for his characters to go after EA for ripping off his ideas from the comic like I said in my pervious post. The whole case was centered around the Marauders "rip offs" remember.

Wait wait wait wait, since when were his characters used in a video game? If you're meaning the Marauraders of Sonic Chornicles then that isn't cause they're entirely different characters. They resemble each other but I find it odd, that Penders claims that they were ripped off from his Dark Legion yet when he says on Anti Sonic and Robo-Robotnik's creation:

"When Mike K and I co-created Evil Sonic and Robo-Robotnik, nothing like those characters existed in the games. They weren't based on Sonic or Robotnik per se as far as personality and purpose went. And that's the key here. Both characters are depicted as clear individuals in the same panels with their original version, thus establishing them as clear and distinctly different characters. The equivalent here is Spawn/Midieval Spawn. When Robo-Robotnik becomes the new Eggman, it isn't done off-panel. Neither is Evil Sonic's transformation into Scourge. My characters are literally shown being given makeovers and a name change, thus they have no degree of separation from being my characters. Had Ian established Scourge as a separate character apart from Evil Sonic, then the character is out of bounds to any claims of mine. But that didn't happen, and there's no retconning to correct this after the fact."

When I saw this I went "huh?" Not based on the original Sonic and Robotnik? Then how come he said the Maraduders were ripped off the Dark Legion? Someone please ask him that. Not to mention that the his Echidna characters were based off Knuckles.

Why shouldn't Archie fairly compensate its writers and illustrators for reprints of their original work? Why shouldn't they also be fairly compensated if those characters are later used in film or some other media? If Archie and Sega can gain financially from releasing the original comic, and also profit from their use in other venues, why shouldn't the writers and illustrators be fairly compensated too?

Penders was responsible for the bulk of content that made the Knuckles series viable. The characters he made didn't exist in the video games. At the very least he should be recognized for fighting to sustain the comic series and by that same token, supporting the fans who love it, when no one else was paying attention. How many years was Penders out pushing the comic at the Comic Con, when Archie was no where to be found?

I suppose it could and thats where Archie appears to be unfair. But its not like every pervious comic writer in other industries gets paid royalties right? The thing I would be against is that Archie removes his name from the reprints but they didn't.

You say Penders has spoken poorly of the comic and current staff. If true, that's regrettable. But I'd imagine this is all pretty frustrating so regrettable things have been spoken by all. I did read somewhere that at the San Diego Comic Con, Penders actually went up to Archie's current Sonic writer, Ian, to shake his hand in a friendly gesture.

I know about that but I can't help feel that he's just pretending to be nice sometimes yet on the internet he says so much bad stuff about them. He doesn't appear to be happy with Ian's ideas that Locke has died in the story as it condtricts the Mobius X Year Later storyline as he intended for it to be the true future and that there was more than one Enerjak. And now wants to do the Lara-Su Chornicles ignoring Ian's ideas and storylines.

With all this said I never said Penders was truly some orge nor was Archie right all the time. I did like Penders' writing for Knuckles alot and he can be a creative guy even with Sonic's stories but I felt he didn't do good anymore during the comic's dark ages period. He created his own characters and storylines like the Lost Ones and I don't see why he can't continue with his own stuff, why Sonic with the LS Chornicles? Why make something out of your past work with Sonic? Its like because the comic has a huge fanbase and he knows he can sell well by targeting them but I feel he can do suceessfully with his own creations if he works hard enough.

[Danny Felixe 330]

At this point, I'm starting to hate Penders more and more

[Delicious echidna 53]

Peoples . Archie did stuff, Penders did stuff. And Ian did some others stuff. Some were please, some were not. Suddenly archie Did reprint of old comics. Penders wanted some money from his creations, And it didn't pleased archie. On thing led to another, and now, we are having this conversation. Saddening, isn't it?

[Danny Felixe 330]

Extremely, if Archie and Penders got along better, the world would be better for everyone. Especially the fans of all Penders "creations"

[Delicious echidna 53]

Leave me alone! Just because I look like a bearded knuckles doesn't mean I should be seen in such a bad light....

But what is stupid, is the wasted plot with the guardian.... Man, just Look at Spectre! He was litterally a massive walking "WRITE ME A FREAKING STORY , I DESERVE IT."

[Danny Felixe 330]

Just don't go about wearing any more boxes on your head

As for Spectre, he is probably one of the coolest echidnas in Archie. I think your right, he should have a story. And I mean a good story

[Delicious echidna 53]

Glad to see that; too bad we never got to see that story of him and the dark legion....

[MetalSkulkBane_PL 18]

Man, just Look at Spectre! He was litterally a massive walking "WRITE ME A FREAKING STORY , I DESERVE IT."

There is reason why many Penders ideas are known as "good ideas, poor execution that makes them look like bad ideas" Most of his characters never do anything. Lien-da, Dingoes, not to mention Moritori "I spend years as spy and did nothing" Rex.

When Robo-Robotnik becomes the new Eggman, it isn't done off-panel. Neither is Evil Sonic's transformation into Scourge. My characters are literally shown being given makeovers and a name change, thus they have no degree of separation from being my characters.

When I saw this I went "huh?" Not based on the original Sonic and Robotnik? Then how come he said the Maraduders were ripped off the Dark Legion? Someone please ask him that. Not to mention that the his Echidna characters were based off Knuckles.

He doesn't appear to be happy with Ian's ideas that Locke has died in the story as it condtricts the Mobius X Year Later storyline as he intended for it to be the true future

Wait, Penders claims that we Archie cant use Scourge AND Eggman anymore? And Locke argument only makes him a hypocrite. If he wanted to create one true future, he shouldn't make decisions like "Eggman was defeated in the end by Knuckles" or "Sonic and Tails arent friends anymore". Who's the one discrespecting other's characters now, huh?

[Delicious echidna 53]

Well, at least Lien(da got more luck than Spectre.....poor guy.