Ken Penders Topic...

[Max1996 5]

While Julie-Su should come back, I don't wanna see Lien-Da and Finitevus ever again.

[Danny Felixe 330]

While Julie-Su should come back, I don't wanna see Lien-Da and Finitevus ever again.

Whats wrong with Finitevus? He's a good villain and I'd like to see him back

[Max1996 5]

Whats wrong with Finitevus? He's a good villain and I'd like to see him back

Let's face it, he's just...what would you call it? Oh yeah, too crazy to be allowed to exist.

[Danny Felixe 330]

Let's face it, he's just...what would you call it? Oh yeah, too crazy to be allowed to exist.

Blame Knuckles for his existence. But I still say that he should come back. Julie-Su as well. Lien-Da, I wouldn't mind her coming back. Though I would have preferred it if she wasn't remodelled, if that's the right word

[Delicious echidna 53]

Remodeled ? what do you mean ?

[Max1996 5]

Blame Knuckles for his existence. But I still say that he should come back. Julie-Su as well. Lien-Da, I wouldn't mind her coming back. Though I would have preferred it if she wasn't remodelled, if that's the right word

Ok, technically, he went mad while trying to drain Chaos energy, but we can blame Charmy and Saffron for actually causing the experiment to go out of control to the point where that happened.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Then we'll habe to blame Nack and his sister, and Gala-na too while we are at it .

[BlueBlur 0]

]


I don't remember hearing that but what I read, he filed copyright for his characters to go after EA for ripping off his ideas from the comic like I said in my pervious post. The whole case was centered around the Marauders "rip offs" remember.

That's not what I read. My understanding is Penders first went to Archie for royalties after learning about the release of Sonic Archives and the EA video game. They didn't respond, leaving him no choice but to file for copyrights to have legal standing to pursue it.







Wait wait wait wait, since when were his characters used in a video game? If you're meaning the Marauraders of Sonic Chornicles then that isn't cause they're entirely different characters. They resemble each other but I find it odd, that Penders claims that they were ripped off from his Dark Legion yet when he says on Anti Sonic and Robo-Robotnik's creation:

"When Mike K and I co-created Evil Sonic and Robo-Robotnik, nothing like those characters existed in the games. They weren't based on Sonic or Robotnik per se as far as personality and purpose went. And that's the key here. Both characters are depicted as clear individuals in the same panels with their original version, thus establishing them as clear and distinctly different characters. The equivalent here is Spawn/Midieval Spawn. When Robo-Robotnik becomes the new Eggman, it isn't done off-panel. Neither is Evil Sonic's transformation into Scourge. My characters are literally shown being given makeovers and a name change, thus they have no degree of separation from being my characters. Had Ian established Scourge as a separate character apart from Evil Sonic, then the character is out of bounds to any claims of mine. But that didn't happen, and there's no retconning to correct this after the fact."

When I saw this I went "huh?" Not based on the original Sonic and Robotnik? Then how come he said the Maraduders were ripped off the Dark Legion? Someone please ask him that. Not to mention that the his Echidna characters were based off Knuckles.




That's easy. I don't need to ask him that question. That's because to be able to copyright a character the two characters have distinct and dissimilar personality characteristics. Your term "based off" doesn't define what is or isn't a legal copyright. For example Super Boy, Super Man, Clark Kent and Kal-el may all be the same person, but there are different copyrights on each character. One is an adult, the other a boy, one is a reporter and the other a being on another planet. They all have different attributes and therefore can be copyrighted. Peter Pan is Peter Pan. But Peter Banning, the adult Peter Pan from the movie Hook, is a different copyrightable character.

 Same with Spawn and Medieval Spawn.

A character who does good has different character traits from one that only does evil. Evil Sonic is the antithesis of Sonic. There was no evil character in the comic before it was created by Penders, so can be copyrighted. But the Marauders of the Chronicles are essentially exactly the same as the Dark Legion with a different name.









I suppose it could and thats where Archie appears to be unfair. But its not like every pervious comic writer in other industries gets paid royalties right? The thing I would be against is that Archie removes his name from the reprints but they didn't.









Most other comic franchises do pay royalties. DC and Marvel do and from what I hear, Archie is one of the few in the industry that doesn't.



It's not fair for comic publishers to exploit the creative forces that develop and illustrate the stories, and just reissue or use that material in new ways without paying for it. Dan DeCarlo worked for Archie and created Josie as part of the comic book. He waited years before finally getting fed up with Archie exploiting Josie and the Pussycats without giving him recognition. Why shouldn't he get credit? If Archie puts the Josie character in a film why shouldn't he be compensated for that new use?

Speaking of which, Josie and the Pussycats are copyrightable because they are an all girl group with a cat for a mascot (as opposed to being three guys, two girls and a dog, like the Archies). Being "based off" the Archie series didn't come into play with the lawsuit. The contract that DeCarlo signed with the company did.







I know about that but I can't help feel that he's just pretending to be nice sometimes yet on the internet he says so much bad stuff about them. He doesn't appear to be happy with Ian's ideas that Locke has died in the story as it condtricts the Mobius X Year Later storyline as he intended for it to be the true future and that there was more than one Enerjak. And now wants to do the Lara-Su Chornicles ignoring Ian's ideas and storylines.




Pretending? 

I have never seen any such thing on the internet. Penders has said bad things about whom? When was this and where? Please show me where you're seeing this.

Why shouldn't Penders be able to discuss the characters he created and developed for over a decade and the direction in which they are now heading? If Archie would keep the characters in the book, Penders wouldn't need to develop the Lara-Su Chronicles.





With all this said I never said Penders was truly some orge nor was Archie right all the time. I did like Penders' writing for Knuckles alot and he can be a creative guy even with Sonic's stories but I felt he didn't do good anymore during the comic's dark ages period. He created his own characters and storylines like the Lost Ones and I don't see why he can't continue with his own stuff, why Sonic with the LS Chornicles? Why make something out of your past work with Sonic? Its like because the comic has a huge fanbase and he knows he can sell well by targeting them but I feel he can do suceessfully with his own creations if he works hard enough.




The comic has a huge fan-base that Penders helped create. He introduced a wealth of characters into series that never existed before. From what I remember, it was Penders who went to the Comic Con for years promoting Sonic and Knuckles series, when Archie was no where to be seen.

I don't see why Archie would re-release his work, without paying him. It's obvious Penders cares about all the characters. But at this point it's apparent that Archie could care less about them. If they did, they wouldn't drop them. They'd simply pay everyone responsible for the comic's success the royalties that they're due.

[Shadow 43]

To comment on Max1996 his comment: Dr. Finitevus was not created by Ken Penders. So he would not dissapear along with the Penders characters, if they were to dissapear.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Great . Reading material after material of information is just making the whole thing even less understandable for me ... So think of someone who was not even following it !

In fact , the whole problem was due to copyright ?

[Danny Felixe 330]

That and selfishness. And greed. And a bunch of other things

[Delicious echidna 53]

They were too mixed up for us to actuall find them...

[BlurryDawgo 26]

To comment on Max1996 his comment: Dr. Finitevus was not created by Ken Penders. So he would not dissapear along with the Penders characters, if they were to disappear.

Actually, to be more specific, he was first shown as an unnamed character in a Penders story, but was redesigned and officially introduced in a Bollers story. So that means Finitevus will not disappear, especially since he was mentioned by name in StH #244, the first issue that removed Penders' chars.

[Danny Felixe 330]

Actually, to be more specific, he was first shown as an unnamed character in a Penders story, but was redesigned and officially introduced in a Bollers story. So that means Finitevus will not disappear, especially since he was mentioned by name in StH #244, the first issue that removed Penders' chars.

Thank all that is good for that

[Delicious echidna 53]

Unfortunaly , that also mean goodnte to harry and his Dinguos friend . Notthat we care .

[Simon Arty 14]

That's not what I read. My understanding is Penders first went to Archie for royalties after learning about the release of Sonic Archives and the EA video game. They didn't respond, leaving him no choice but to file for copyrights to have legal standing to pursue it.

That is not true at all. Penders stated on his forum back in 2010 that fans told him that material very similar to his was used in Sonic Chronicles and was what started him to take back his work, he said it himself:

“I initially took the action of reclaiming my work when I was contacted by many SONIC fans asking me if I had contributed in any way to the development of the video game SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. I was then startled to learn how many characters and concepts from the KNUCKLES series I created were adapted within the framework of the game's storyline. It was clearly obvious why suddenly so many fans sat up and took notice.”

The whole case can basically be summed up like this as how a fan said: "This WHOLE thing started because Ken took issue with certain aspects of Sonic Chronicles, claiming some of his ideas were used as the bases for that game's story. At some point, he decided he needed to file for copyrights of his material to then go after SEGA and EA. Archie in turn sued Ken trying to get his copyright registrations repealed stating he signed a work-for-hire contract legally making those ideas Archie's and, more importantly, SEGA's."

It started with the whole” Chronicles ‘stealing’ his ideas”, specifically Shade and the Marauders. Not royalties, why would Ken go ask for royalties in the first place if he knew Archie has never had a history of paying pervious writers? That was not what started this, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

What I still don't understand is that Penders stated somewhere else that the writers of Sonic Chronicles came to him for ideas but didn't give him credit in the end. But that contradicts Penders’ story about how fans made him aware that Bioware "ripped-off" his work on the comics as I stated above. And Chronicles was really taking inspiration form the comics obviously, but doesn't mean that they were "ripping off' the Dark Legion. This is the part where something is wrong and why the heck would the writers of Chronicles go to Penders for ideas when Ian was already the head writer at that time already? I have a feeling Penders is lying..

That's easy. I don't need to ask him that question. That's because to be able to copyright a character the two characters have distinct and dissimilar personality characteristics. Your term "based off" doesn't define what is or isn't a legal copyright. For example Super Boy, Super Man, Clark Kent and Kal-el may all be the same person, but there are different copyrights on each character. One is an adult, the other a boy, one is a reporter and the other a being on another planet. They all have different attributes and therefore can be copyrighted. Peter Pan is Peter Pan. But Peter Banning, the adult Peter Pan from the movie Hook, is a different copyrightable character.Same with Spawn and Medieval Spawn.

A character who does good has different character traits from one that only does evil. Evil Sonic is the antithesis of Sonic. There was no evil character in the comic before it was created by Penders, so can be copyrighted. But the Marauders of the Chronicles are essentially exactly the same as the Dark Legion with a different name.

The thing I find odd is that he’s saying Anti Sonic doesn’t look like Sonic with the same with Robo-Robotnik made me want to almost laugh. Are really serious saying the Marauders are the same as the Dark Legion? I do not agree with that, they're very different and up to now I still don't see how.

Pretending? I have never seen any such thing on the internet. Pender has said bad things about whom? When was this and where? Please show me where you're seeing this.

Why shouldn't Penders be able to discuss the characters he created and developed for over a decade and the direction in which they are now heading? If Archie would keep the characters in the book, Penders wouldn't need to develop the Lara-Su Chronicles.

I said that’s what I felt not what I've seen because Penders didn't really say nice things about the current team, I remember very correctly that he said that Ian isn’t handling the characters very well and that Tracey Yardley’s “kiddish” artwork was partly to blame why the comic hasn’t been selling well since his days and that Ian hasn’t written anything big like Endgame that is still talked about till this day. I remember seeing this on his forums but it’s hard to find since his board doesn’t have a search engine. Another thing I heard is that Penders called the current team making money out of somebody else’s characters (this I mentioned previously), very obvious hypocrisy there. I saw someone said this on BumbleKing forums but the member was told to stop discussing it and it was never quoted so I never saw it for myself.

Not only that, but he is selfish jerk for blowing Ben Hurst’s plans for SATam's continuation and wanting to make a his own Sonic movie which utterly failed. Ben Hurst says:

“The next day, I got a call from Ken Penders, who had been alerted by his contact in their office that I was interested in getting a Sonic movie going. I generously offered to include him in the effort and told him my strategy. Get SEGA to become invested in the idea by hiring us to interview their creative game designers, execs, etc and see if we could develop a story line that would fulfill the third season - and simultaneously give them creative ideas to develop new games. A win-win, situation.

Then, I called SEGA back, but I was shocked when the exec "lit" into me, telling me, "People pay US to develop Sonic product, we don't pay them!" Then she hung up on me. Obviously, Penders had related my strategy to them in a less-than-flattering way. Thanks for the knife, Ken.

So, I gave up. Later, I was informed by friendly fans that Penders had written in his message board or some such place that "Ben Hurst doesn't know how movies are made in Hollywood." (Hey Ken, read "Adventures in Screenwriting" by William Goldman and get some humility) Then he dropped hints that HE would be the writer for a big Sonic Feature Film. That was three years ago."

And Penders seriously thinks he owns the comic series:

“Just for the record: Ken [Penders of Archie comics] has often said (paraphrasing here) that "Ben Hurst says the torch has been passed to me for Sonic the Hedgehog" - usually expressed in a way to make it appear that I passed the torch to him. Not true. I was just trying to be nice. What I said was that since the comic was ongoing and the animated series was over, the torch had been passed [by default] to him. I was just trying to prevent a flurry of inquiries from fans pitting his opinion against mine on how the Sonic Universe should be sculpted after SatAm ended. The way he has expressed it in the past seems to convey the impression that he has my approval of his work. He doesn't. I've not read a single comic”.

Sure he can discuss it, I never said that. But the thing is that he isn't happy with how Ian has handled his characters. Since when was it said that Penders was going to make the LS Chronicles just because his characters have disappeared from the book? Penders had already announced plans for this back in 2010 and the characters disappeared only this year:

“I am currently at work creating a new story featuring my characters, the first of which is a tale of Lara-Su learning about her family, in particular the early days of her grandparents Locke and Lara-Le leading up to the time of the birth of their child. Whether or not this new story or others will feature SONIC and KNUCKLES is a decision only SEGA can make. However, there are plenty of stories to be told with the cast I already have created, and there is a sizable audience for those stories.”

I don't see why Archie would re-release his work, without paying him. It's obvious Penders cares about all the characters. But at this point it's apparent that Archie could care less about them. If they did, they wouldn't drop them. They'd simply pay everyone responsible for the comic's success the royalties that they're due.

First thing's for sure is that we're not certain what Archie is feeling neither is it actually confirmed yet if they were the ones who took the characters out, what you said could be true but it’s also possible that they may have taken the characters out from the book for a while so as to show Penders they are not wanting him to take the characters away or pay him. Like I already said, Penders has been credited in every reprint, Archives, Sagas, legacy series, etc, I would very against the fact if they remove his name treating him like he never worked on the comics at all, but that didn't happen and I believe they would credit him if his characters are to be used in other media. I understand how you feel on Archie not paying Penders but I feel him being credited is good already, and his name being remembered for bringing up the series to where it is now. Even Dan DeCarlo whom you mentioned who got into a lawsuit with Archie for who was the creator of the characters had his name credited on the movie adaption of Josie and the Pussycats as the creator and as co creator for the TV show Sabrina, the teenage witch. I'm sure they'll do the same for Penders.

Honestly asking you, are you really believing that Penders is right and you like his ideas and artwork for LS Chronicles and you’re going to read it? I’ve personally never really like Mobius X Years Later storyline and his new series isn’t appealing with me at all, even artist Ben Bates said he doesn’t really like it.

If you haven't, you should really see this:

Oh yes, how many of you remember that Ken Penders wanted to turn Rotor into a gay character for the MXYL storyline? I get so angry at that idea and now Penders is stating on his message board that Kneecaps (Knuckles’ younger brother) is also a gay character he’s planning to turn him into one. Penders cares for the characters because he only wants them for himself and his stupid movie and series and gave so much trouble for all of us, had to say that, and I've already said why I don't like the guy many times here and on pervious pages, the evidence is clear.

[BlurryDawgo 26]

A have a feeling we might start a literally physical riot-mob against Ken Penders, break into his house and continually yell at him for removal of his characters, causing him to go back to the court and make the judge give us a fine for breaking and entering. Guys, Ken may never give his characters up, but that doesn't mean the world is ending. Sonic is a good influence on confidence and moral support (even though he is obviously fictional), and that's why we all love him. Why am I telling you this? Because he said:

"Maybe we can bring back all the echidnas, but for now, though, we just gotta keep going forward."

Arguing about Penders my make us feel better, but it obviously won't bring his characters back. As long as the Freedom Fighters are there, I'm good.

[Delicious echidna 53]

Arguing about Penders does not make anyone Better pal. It's just a scapegoat to avoid facing the real problem : The possible disapearrance of loved Characters. As unteal as they are, Many have grew up readin this comic book, And other might have enjoyed reading their adventure. And now , there is a chance that we might never see them again; Wirse , they may not even goes with a bang ....

[BlurryDawgo 26]

Feel better=Release all the emotion tension.

Sorry, I only started reading this comic last March (after Penders' chars were removed.)

[HyperMetal50 17]

I have to agree with almost all of Simon's statement there. Penders may have created a lot of characters, but a fair few weren't entirely original. Saying that Ian's done nothing as big as Endgame is pretty egocentric if you ask me and I find Yardely's! style to be one of the best art styles in the comic. I really didn't like most of the old styles they used. In fact, Penders really hasn't done anyone any favours. He ruined Hurst's chances of making a movie and his idea of making gay characters just seems not at all right in my opinion.

[BlurryDawgo 26]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, GAY CHARACTERS!? Isn't that illegal-ish?

[HyperMetal50 17]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, GAY CHARACTERS!? Isn't that illegal-ish?

Well you see when Penders was making the Mobius X years later story, he intended for Rotor to be gay and thanks to Simon's info, Penders even planned to have Kneecaps as a gay character. Apparently he was told to be VERY discreet about it, so much so that it's barely implied.

[Danny Felixe 330]

Well you see when Penders was making the Mobius X years later story, he intended for Rotor to be gay and thanks to Simon's info, Penders even planned to have Kneecaps as a gay character. Apparently he was told to be VERY discreet about it, so much so that it's barely implied.

I'm not surprised about him being told to be discreet. I have nothing wrong with it, but I also think this would be a dangerous area to tread in if he was more -how do I put it- out there about it

[HyperMetal50 17]

I'm not surprised about him being told to be discreet. I have nothing wrong with it, but I also think this would be a dangerous area to tread in if he was more -how do I put it- out there about it

It's a kids comic and if there is any kids comic that features that sort of character in a very "out there" way, then please do tell me, because as far as I know there's never been such a thing, since I really don't think a comic like Sonic the Hedgehog is the place for that sort of controversial thing.

[Danny Felixe 330]

It's a kids comic and if there is any kids comic that features that sort of character in a very "out there" way, then please do tell me, because as far as I know there's never been such a thing, since I really don't think a comic like Sonic the Hedgehog is the place for that sort of controversial thing.

I can't name one. And yes, this isn't the kind of place for this sort of thing. He needs to think about who's going to be reading these comics, and since this is a kids comic, he needs to think about whether this is appropriate for kids to be reading