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My thoughts about the comics.


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I am not really a "fan" of the series per-say, but I did play the old games when I was young and always wandered what the background of these characters were. Well here I am years later having just found out about SatAM and thought "This would have been an even better universe to play the game in, there could have been more depth to it really." I thought the characters were pretty neat to have even existed, Bunny, Sally, Rotor, and even Snively were neat characters. It makes me wonder why some other, seemingly random, characters made the cut of the games and future shows, when they weren't nearly as developed as these current characters. So I thought it surely didn't stop at SatAM and I found myself here.

I peeked around the old comics and came up to 160, which was appealing simply because it's art style felt more consistent and clean, so I skipped a little bit more all the way to 168. I thought that was a good place to start, I read back when they would allude to something that happened previously and I could actually keep up with it fairly well. My favorite thing though is learning about each character to a personal level, from their relationships to the way they act toward their peers at home. Such as Bunny getting married, Sonic's kind of awkward relationship with Sally, and Tails... Well, his relationship's are always in shambles, which is pretty funny. 

The battles in 168 and beyond seemed to have 'more' reason and rhyme to it, and my favorite battle is when Dr. Eggman LOSES his s**t from having lost so many battles. I love that one, simply because he always just returns, and to see him finally fall back into the umbral parts of his actual insanity was hilarious, I just kept thinking to myself "Damn" and Einstein's definition of insanity. I didn't really like the chain where "Naugus?" was voted as king, it seemed so awkward, its like if Adolf Eatler (something tells me this site wouldn't like the mention of his actual name) just walked into Israel's governing facility and offered them better protection then the USA (Terrible example, but you get the point, I hope.)

The ending though, broke something that had potential, it took this cool and interesting world, and literally, as in physically, threw away the comic IN the middle of a battle that was about to be resolved... Just for that, I just can't like the comics anymore, I will reread the old ones and skim through the new one's, but the new comics feel like Sonic Boom, too simplified. Now I have NO idea what the back stories of these characters are anymore. I only liked the fact that some part of their brain still has those gone memories, makes me wish they would seek to reverse what Egghead did, so I can return to the conclusion of the previous battle. This just makes it more awkward, because now I feel like the characters are consistently still in that battle in someway, especially since it just broke the entire planet. Now that it's sealed though, I hope they seek the return of their unknown past, but something tells me that the characters are just gonna forget because, if I remember correctly, that memory of them fades, so it's a real shame, they even seemed vary upset to have learned about their past.

I don't know, this has been my experience so far, what do you think?

Edited by The Old World Menace
They do care about their past, I remembered why they might not return.

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I am not really a "fan" of the series per-say, but I did play the old games when I was young and always wandered what the background of these characters were. Well here I am years later having just found out about SatAM and thought "This would have been an even better universe to play the game in, there could have been more depth to it really." I thought the characters were pretty neat to have even existed, Bunny, Sally, Rotor, and even Snively were neat characters. It makes me wonder why some other, seemingly random, characters made the cut of the games and future shows, when they weren't nearly as developed as these current characters. So I thought it surely didn't stop at SatAM and I found myself here.

I peeked around the old comics and came up to 160, which was appealing simply because it's art style felt more consistent and clean, so I skipped a little bit more all the way to 168. I thought that was a good place to start, I read back when they would allude to something that happened previously and I could actually keep up with it fairly well. My favorite thing though is learning about each character to a personal level, from their relation ships to the way they act toward their peers at home.

The battles seemed to have 'more' reason and rhyme to it, and my favorite is when Dr. Eggman LOSES his s**t from having lost so many battles. I love that one, simply because he always just returns, and to see him finally fall back into the umbral parts of his actual insanity was hilarious, I just kept thinking to myself "Damn" and Einstein's definition of insanity. I didn't really like the chain where "Naugus?" was voted as king, it seemed so awkward, its like if Adolf Eatler (something tells me this site wouldn't like the mention of his actual name) just walked into Israel's governing facility and offered them better protection then the USA (Terrible example, but you get the point, I hope.)

The ending though, broke something that had potential, it took this cool and interesting world, and literally, as in physically, threw away the comic IN the middle of a battle that was about to be resolved... Just for that, I just can't like the comics anymore, I will reread the old ones and skim through the new one's, but the new comics feel like Sonic Boom, too simplified. Now I have NO idea what the back stories of these characters are anymore. I only liked the fact that some part of their brain still has those gone memories, makes me wish they would seek to reverse what Egghead did, so I can return to the conclusion of the previous battle. This just makes it more awkward, because now I feel like the characters are consistently still in that battle in someway, especially since it just broke the entire planet. Now that it's sealed though, I hope they seek the return of their unknown past, but something tells me that the characters just don't give a f**k about their OTHER life.

I don't know, this has been my experience so far, what do you think?

I'm guessing you're not familiar with the reasons as to WHY the comic's world was rebooted and things were left unresolved?

Just to let you know, the reboot happened because of legal disputes over the rights to use certain characters from the comics. One of the writers of the series (Ken Penders) wanted full ownership of the characters he created for the comic (which was are fairly large amount), and Archie Comics didn't agree, so there was a long drawn-out court case over the copyrights, with even SEGA themselves getting dragged into the mix. In the end, Ken presumably got the rights to his characters back (or the equivalent of), leaving Archie and the current writer (Ian Flynn) in a pickle. They couldn't use any of Ken's characters in the comic anymore without paying him (which would likely have cost a lot of money which Archie didn't have) and quite a few of them were important to then-current story arcs (notably the echidnas in issues 243-246). This caused for a DRASTIC rewrite of some story arcs in both the main book and Sonic Universe, and needing to find a way to avoid further complications.

SEGA were also becoming more strict towards Archie, about how Sonic and the comic's world should be portrayed closer to the games. Soon enough, Archie and the comic's editor at the time (Paul Kaminski) came up with a solution: use the then-upcoming Sonic & Mega Man crossover (Worlds Collide, which was due to happen anyway) as a catalyst for the reboot, chucking out all characters not created/owned by SEGA or Ian Flynn in the process to try and avoid any further lawsuits. Also, while Sonic and Co. did recall faint memories of the old world at first, that won't be explored any further as they've officially forgotten those memories now. This was because the writer and then-editor couldn't decide on how to tackle the reboot at first (Ian wanted a full-reboot without any past references, Paul wanted them to remember fully but without naming unusable characters).

Unfortunately, if you're looking for any form of official continuation to the old world, you're pretty much straight out of luck. The closest thing was something Ian was working on called 'Lost Hedgehog Tales', but that had to be shelved due to legal reasons. Some fans are working on an unofficial continuation, similar to what the British 'Sonic the Comic' has, but it hasn't actually started yet.

(If you already knew all of this, then I apologise for the large wall of text. If not, well... now you know.)

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I'm guessing you're not familiar with the reasons as to WHY the comic's world was rebooted and things were left unresolved?

Just to let you know, the reboot happened because of legal disputes over the rights to use certain characters from the comics. One of the writers of the series (Ken Penders) wanted full ownership of the characters he created for the comic (which was are fairly large amount), and Archie Comics didn't agree, so there was a long drawn-out court case over the copyrights, with even SEGA themselves getting dragged into the mix. In the end, Ken presumably got the rights to his characters back (or the equivalent of), leaving Archie and the current writer (Ian Flynn) in a pickle. They couldn't use any of Ken's characters in the comic anymore without paying him (which would likely have cost a lot of money which Archie didn't have) and quite a few of them were important to then-current story arcs (notably the echidnas in issues 243-246). This caused for a DRASTIC rewrite of some story arcs in both the main book and Sonic Universe, and needing to find a way to avoid further complications.

SEGA were also becoming more strict towards Archie, about how Sonic and the comic's world should be portrayed closer to the games. Soon enough, Archie and the comic's editor at the time (Paul Kaminski) came up with a solution: use the then-upcoming Sonic & Mega Man crossover (Worlds Collide, which was due to happen anyway) as a catalyst for the reboot, chucking out all characters not created/owned by SEGA or Ian Flynn in the process to try and avoid any further lawsuits. Also, while Sonic and Co. did recall faint memories of the old world at first, that won't be explored any further as they've officially forgotten those memories now. This was because the writer and then-editor couldn't decide on how to tackle the reboot at first (Ian wanted a full-reboot without any past references, Paul wanted them to remember fully but without naming unusable characters).

Unfortunately, if you're looking for any form of official continuation to the old world, you're pretty much straight out of luck. The closest thing was something Ian was working on called 'Lost Hedgehog Tales', but that had to be shelved due to legal reasons. Some fans are working on an unofficial continuation, similar to what the British 'Sonic the Comic' has, but it hasn't actually started yet.

(If you already knew all of this, then I apologise for the large wall of text. If not, well... now you know.)

Ok, I knew there was some legal dispute over it, but I didn't know the depth of it, wow, so I guess Archie didn't want to publish something they had no control over, and Ken didn't want Archie messing with he story. I guess ken kind of knew that SEGA was going to try and intervene with the comics? I guess that is why I feel disconnected with the current comics, it portrayed like the games now, and not like the life sonic actually lives... though shame on Ken for not allowing full rights to Archie, it's not like there was anything he could do with the characters, its like a peanut better and jelly sandwich, and taking the peanut butter and jelly out of it, then finding out that there is really nothing you can do with just PB & J alone (Really stupid analogy.) I hope Ken gives his characters to Archie for Ian Flynn, because no one else wants those characters, SEGA certainly can care less about them, so it's kind of silly.

I am rather glad though they managed to get Bunnie, Rotor, and Antoine. I think Snively got stuck with 'papa' Ken? (because it's like a terrible and pointless divorce) I don't recall ever seeing Snively after the crossover...

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Snively's in the new world, though he's now named Dr. Julian Snively, since his old name in the comics (Colin 'Snively' Kintobor) was created by Ken or another former writer. He's currently working for GUN, but there's not much else we know right now aside from "he's still evil". Thankfully the entire SatAM cast is technically under SEGA's ownership, so they're still usable (though some, like Snively, have had to change their names/designs for one reason or another).

As for Ken coming to an agreement with Archie... er, no. That's completely out of the question at this point. Not only do Archie & SEGA likely want nothing to do with the man at this point, but Ken has made some very... ludicrous statements over the past few years. For example, he insisted that the world of Mobius: 25 Years Later was THE canonical future of the Sonic series, with no exceptions, and also insisted that he owns the comic version of Dr. Eggman since he was originally Robo-Robotnik before later becoming Eggman (and organic). Even with that history, Eggman is still a SEGA character, so he has no real standing on that assumption, especially since the current Eggman in the comics (post-reboot) is completely, 100% NOT connected to Robo-Robotnik (even though Ken still occasionally insists he is).

Ever since Ken 'won' the case (technically nobody won, it was just kinda settled) he's been working on his own project called 'The Lara-Su Chronicles', using most of the characters he created from the Sonic comic, but now completely disconnected from the franchise. He's been working on it for just over 3 years now and has produced... next-to-nothing for it. Instead, he spends most of his time on Twitter either saying that he's still working on it, or just arguing with others. If you want more info, there a Ken Penders topic on this forum and others (I don't know exactly how much information there is on our one, but it should be enough).

Just be warned though, there aren't a lot of nice things to say about Ken Penders and his project(s)...

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Wow, this is hilariously absurd, at least Snively stays, so all of the most interesting characters are still here, that is good. I guess I can kind of accept the fate of the comics, after better seeing how this all turned out.

What is funny though, is I have seen the 25 years later arch, and I didn't really approve of it, I liked the idea of what life was like in the future, but it just didn't make any since.... at all... It had this weird version of the genesis wave in the middle of it's own story, I just didn't like it.

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Just be warned though, there aren't a lot of nice things to say about Ken Penders and his project(s)...

To touch upon this point, it feels like he's getting more popular again as more people are hating on Flynn now actually. At least when I last paid attention to this

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People are hating Flynn pretty much because he was the lead writer when the reboot happened, so it's all his fault.  Somehow.  Don't try to argue with the loud vocal fanbase.

(Though it might interest you Old World Menace that Flynn actually took over as head writer at 160! ;)

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Damn, it makes since to be mad at Ken, but why Flynn? He had NOTHING to do with Ken' s robbery of 'other' interesting characters. I think Flynn did all he could really, it's not like he had a choice as to what the 'new' comics were going to be about. 

I don't think Flynn is a great writer, but he has done the best job of it in my opinion. I mean I can tell he has inspiration from the real world, and does make the character's suffer some pretty realistic situations. This adds a darker element to it, which regardless of how 'cheezy' the comics can be, at least with Flynn' s writing there is moments I can respect it.

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It's all Flynn's fault because he's not paying a ton of money to the Pendersman who is a saint and does no wrong like he should

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Posted (edited)

It's all Flynn's fault because he's not paying a ton of money to the Pendersman who is a saint and does no wrong like he should

HA! Absurd way of viewing things in my opinion, I am actually glad they told Pendersman off. There is no better way to make someone swallow their version of how reality works, then to just flat give them the piece of reality we all live in. So just from the facts, I am not gonna blame Flynn, he is doing the best he can and I hope he still enjoys writing comics because if he still puts effort into them I 'will' read them.

Thanks for the skinny on what this whole 'Genesis wave' business is about, though I don't like the direction this dispute is going and I hope it doesn't encourage Flynn to leave. I don't know the level the community is going to go, but I hope they don't strike because they could easily end the series like that. Then what? Nothing, all they will get is the games, which have been very controversial (Buggy messes, and doesn't make any since), so I have heard. 

If there is anything you wish to add to the subject (My thread in general) I am more then willing to socialize.

 

(Though it might interest you Old World Menace that Flynn actually took over as head writer at 160! ;)

Neat, I kind of figured that was the case, because the art style before his wasn't awful (it was definitely better than some older ones, I'd say second best), it just didn't look 'all that' appealing. I say the worst, in my opinion, was the art style of 138. That thing was hideous to look at! It was worse off then some really old comics, and boy, some of them were pretty awful.

This is coming from the perspective of not only a non-fan, but someone who doesn't read comics on a regular basis. So those are my thoughts on the old art style, what do you think?

Edited by The Old World Menace

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Well, we welcome you to the discussions anyways, not-quite-a-fan, and to our messed up continuity. Now a lot of us can agree that 160 was a general upswing for the series, but were there any points before then you enjoyed? Just curious. And have you ever looked up the British fleetway comic?

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Well, we welcome you to the discussions anyways, not-quite-a-fan, and to our messed up continuity. Now a lot of us can agree that 160 was a general upswing for the series, but were there any points before then you enjoyed? Just curious.

Um, it's been a while since I dug through some old comics, I know just before the upswing they had this really strange string of comics that were high-school themed. That was really weird... especially since the theme was dropped, and the high-school seemed to vanish. I might have missed something there, but I am not really sure.

There was something about Antoine marring Sally, I just kinda thought "What the fuuu" why? It wasn't even really Antoine, it was some kind of spy, which was a bit of a relief.

I can't really recall what this one was about, but it was one of the most intriguing, there was a comic where the freedom fighters found some ancient New York city ruins. There was also one where tails was reading a book about discovering the Old World. Which is why i choose my profile name, because I see this world that Sonic lives in, and despite it's villains, its not nearly as ruthless and unforgiving as our world. 

I feel like people from Mobius would be baffled, even, terrified to know what our world was actually like. A world without magic or powerful heroes, plagued by darkness & death, no one is to be trusted completely, and forgiveness is near void. I just imagine someone who has been through its worse making an appearance in Mobius, his cruelty and ruthlessness would have no lines to cross, even Eggman wouldn't go this far.

 

have you ever looked up the British fleetway comic?

Yes, and I thought they were really strange, I didn't even know where to start, it was kind of all over the place to me. It didn't seem all that appealing other then it's craziness "Sonic the Human?" Ugh. 

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